Nia Thomas [00:00:04]:
Hello and welcome to the Knowing Self, Knowing Others podcast where we discuss self aware leadership with thinkers from around the globe. I'm your host Nia Thomas. Join me as we talk to today's I'm delighted to introduce Lauren Rosario Maldonado to the episode today. Lauren is an executive coach, author and thought leader specializing in leadership and cultural intelligence. With over twenty five years of experience, she's helped build high performing, inclusive teams across industries. Her book, Becoming the Change, the Power of Cultural Intelligence, explores how CQ will stirs personal and professional growth. As host of the Choice Chats podcast, Lauren shares insights on transformative leadership and embracing diversity in impactful change. Lauren, it's brilliant to have you on the show.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:00:55]:
Thank you so much, Nia. I'm so excited to be here and share some insights with you. I appreciate the invitation.

Nia Thomas [00:01:01]:
Wonderful. Well, start by telling us then what is cultural intelligence?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:01:07]:
I'd like to think of cultural intelligence as a forward. It's a pass forward for, global communication and collaboration. It's really a framework that helps you understand and relate and connect with people who are different.

Nia Thomas [00:01:25]:
So if I'm in the workplace and I want to talk to my team about cultural intelligence, where do I start that conversation?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:01:35]:
That's a great question. I always encourage people to start with a step before. Start with yourself. Understand your history, your lived experiences, and how your beliefs came to be what they are, how your preferences came to be what they are, and how all the different areas of your lived experiences contributed to that. Because before you can speak to your team about this, you you need to look in the mirror and really understand all parts of you. And only then can you appreciate how all those different parts make up who you are and what your preferences are. So then you can go on and speak to your team about how this, this framework supports collaborating in the midst of all those differences. There is no right or wrong way.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:02:28]:
These are just different preferences and beliefs that people have.

Nia Thomas [00:02:32]:
So from what you said there, it feels like self awareness really is the place where you need to start with this. Am I right to

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:02:40]:
the percent. You are spot on. You have to begin with yourself. Same with as anything we do in life. Right? If you don't start with yourself and understand the different, the different components of who you are, you can never collaborate with another, for professional or personal growth. So it always starts with yourself.

Nia Thomas [00:03:07]:
What's your experience then of working either with individuals or teams where they don't have that self awareness of their cultural background, cultural positioning, or maybe cultural bias?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:03:20]:
That's a great question. I have been in those situations and I can tell you there are two things that will lead the way to creating more connectedness. One is humility. Knowing that there is no right way, I will never have all the answers nor will I ever. And that sort of frees you up to then lean in with curiosity. Right? Because all of a sudden, you're kind of deleting everything that you know, and that then allows you to be curious about different perspectives, what you're being told. Obviously, you know, at work and I've been there, it's much more difficult to do because there are things going on at warp speed, especially now more than ever. Right? The world of work, everything is moving at unprecedented speed levels.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:04:19]:
And so even more reason why we need to tap into humility and be curious and pause even if it's one minute to just listen and listen with curiosity as opposed to humility. What What does this look like in the real world? Right? Because we we love theories, and and I know that academics tend to be very, you know, kumbaya about these things. But if you are in the midst of a busy day and you have 50 people trying to die for your attention, pausing allows you to create space, even if it's one minute to hear, actually listen to what you're being told, and then you can come at it with curiosity. If someone says to you, I I am so upset because of x y z. Pussing allows you to a, hold anything that comes to mind, any thought, any any action, anything, And it frees you up to just ask a question. Tell me more. You're activating curiosity in that moment. And it frees you up to to actually see the person in that moment, hold their space even if there's all these different things going on in the moment.

Nia Thomas [00:05:38]:
That's so interesting. I have a nine pointed self aware leadership compass, and what you've talked about there, authenticity, humility, adaptability, listening, and reflection, all of those. We've got five directions of the compass right there. So there is definitely that overlay of start with self, start with understanding, and then start to understand your impact on others and how you can change your behavior to work with others. So how has this journey that you've been on in exploring cultural intelligence really shaped your growth, your leadership journey? What has it meant for you?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:06:20]:
It changed everything to the point that I had to write a book because suddenly I realized, a, that a lot of my beliefs and preferences, both at home and at work, were shaped by not only my lived experiences, but my cultural history. And as a second generation immigrant, I may not have been born in the Dominican Republic, but my parents were. And they passed on a lot of those beliefs to me. And those beliefs were shaping many different aspects of my personal and professional relationships. And you and I both know, and your audience does as well. When it comes to leadership, it doesn't matter what your title is. We know a lot of leaders will lead without ever getting the title. So understanding how those beliefs that were passed on to me were layered on top of my, my organic beliefs then helped me navigate through the different questions that surfaced at the time, which were, is this really who I am as a leader? Is this really who I am as a person? Do I do I really truly have an issue with people who haven't asked them, for example, when they speak English? Or has is that something that has been passed on to me? And this is what I mean by looking in the mirror.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:07:47]:
I want to look in the middle and ask the hard questions before I could understand how to even apply cultural intelligence. And that process are as as painful as it was at the time because you are layering, you know, really, truly peeling back all those different layers to uncover who you really are as a person, as a leader and everything in between. And why was that so powerful? Because I suddenly realized, a, I had this neutral framework to help me navigate those questions within a safe environment or what seemed to be safe to me at the time. B, it helped me understand and humble myself to the fact that even though I was a learned individual, went through school, many different courses on leadership, read countless books on leadership, I was missing one piece of the puzzle, which was to lead how the person needed to be led in that moment. There's no checklist for that. There's no course for that. It is an essence. And that's what cultural intelligence instilled in me and still does to this very day.

Nia Thomas [00:09:16]:
You've mentioned framework a few times. Tell us more about your framework.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:09:21]:
So my framework, the choice framework is based on several theories that impact us every single day. One, the primary driver of this is cultural intelligence. It has four capabilities, cultural intelligence, your drive, your motivation, your cognitive ability to plan and strategize, but also the knowledge that you are integrating as you roll in this process. But it also includes change management. We don't think about this enough as we are elevating our self awareness, especially as leaders. There is a change management component to this. Who is it that I'm doing this change for? Why? Who is going to benefit? How are they going to benefit? How am I going to communicate this benefit? Right? And so as we are navigating, this journey, there are a lot of different change management components that come into this. Cultural humility.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:10:21]:
We talk about this a lot, but do we really truly embody it? And how do we cultivate that? We talk a lot about kindness and humility, compassion, empathy, but how do you actually cultivate those, those attributes? It's not a checklist and there is no right or wrong way. It is a way that is specific to you. And so it's rooted in action. You know, we cannot grow if we don't take action, but we have to have empathy for ourselves and others. And I say for ourselves because when we talk about empathy to someone other than ourselves, but we don't understand that in order for us to be empathetic with someone else, we first have to be empathetic with ourselves. And that is the hardest hardest thing to do, especially in leadership.

Nia Thomas [00:11:18]:
I think one of the most difficult things to do is to give people examples of what generally refer to as soft skills. I tend to call them relational skills. And what I am finding is that one of the helpful ways to do it is to describe both what something is and what something isn't, and that's something that came through in my research. People would describe empathy is when somebody does this. They could probably tell me in more detail and more examples by saying somebody is not empathetic, and I can tell you how because they did this or they admitted to do that. How are you describing those actions to others?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:12:01]:
Fantastic question. And you're right. People always lead with with what didn't. Yes. Happen. I like to really tap into the possibility. When I'm working with coaching clients, we really tap into what is possible as that empathetic leader. You are empathy.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:12:24]:
Walk me through how you embody that. And we really go deep into the embodiment of it because typically when we talk about these things, they stay up here. They stay in our heads. Right? And this stops at our at our throat. We speak of it. But when you act it out in a neutral and safe environment, you're all of a sudden tapping into what's possible. Right?

Nia Thomas [00:12:48]:
I like that description. We try to describe things in terms of what we do, But the way you've described it there by embodying it, it's how we do the things that we do. So it's doing everything you always intended to do, but how do you now do it with empathy?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:13:06]:
Right. Right. You have a conversation with your employee who's upset, and you're you're getting ready for another meeting about the meeting regarding the meeting. You have one nano minute. So how do you show up with empathy in that moment? You know, and I walk them through what's what what are you feeling? Is your heart pacing? Is your stomach in knots? What is it that you are physically experiencing in the moment? And what that does is that it moves a person deeper right into heart mode and away from head mode because we spend a % of our time in head mode. And when they stop and think about, well, what are those nudges that are going on inside of me physically? You know? Are is my heart pacing and I'm sweating? Are my fingertips numb because I'm so cold? I'm frozen. What is going on in that very moment when this employee stops you? And what happens most often is that they don't there's no coming back from that question in the same way. Because time and time again, they will mention to me in the next session that they felt their heart pumping when they, you know, when they were interrupted or or when someone needed something else that they felt they didn't have the space to give.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:14:30]:
So suddenly they're going deep into hard mode and it helps them expand. When they expand, that's where they are meeting themselves with empathy so that they can be empathetic with someone else.

Nia Thomas [00:14:45]:
It's really hard stuff, isn't it? It really is deep, reflective. And I think when people are in crisis or in distress, busy work situations, that's really difficult to find that time.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:14:58]:
It is. And, and my mission is this. It does not have to be complicated. It does not have to be a 10 page journal entry every day. It doesn't have to be a one hour practice. This can be one minute that you take each day. But what you're doing is you're building micro shifts in empathy. You're moving the needle for yourself and it helps you hold that space for yourself in a way that many don't have and don't have the luxury of obtaining because we're so busy.

Loren [00:15:38]:
Are you looking to improve your business relationships? Have you found yourself dealing with employee conflicts? Are you ready to elevate your perspective to a position of greater awareness? If so, the self awareness superhighway, Charting your leadership journey is the book for you. Here's just a fraction of what you'll learn. What self awareness is and why it's critical for your reputation. How increased self awareness will boost your business relationships. How you can leverage self awareness to excel in your leadership, practical steps to develop your self awareness skills, how you can capitalize on constructive feedback from others, how you can be at the forefront of people centricity in the hyper digital age. Even if you focused on only one development tool to move in one direction on your superhighway, you'll have achieved growth worth more than the price of the book. You can buy your copy from Amazon, Waterstones, Barnes and Noble, Foyles, Blackwell's, and other good online and high street bookstores. Grab a coffee, find a comfy chair, and dive in.

Nia Thomas [00:16:45]:
So tell us about Choice Chats, your podcast. What are you talking about, and what are people telling you on your podcast?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:16:53]:
I love the choice chats because it was inspired, by my book. When I was writing my book and you know this. When you start writing a book, you think about your perspective in a certain way. But as you start writing, it evolves. When I first started writing my book, you know, the the title of the book and the the the foundation was always the same, the power of cultural intelligence because it is that powerful. My experience and others' experiences. But as I was interviewing people, I realized that many people were being culturally intelligent without even knowing what cultural intelligence was. And I found that so curious that I wanted to continue talking about this.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:17:41]:
I wanted to create a love letter for people who are living culturally intelligent regardless whether they know the term or not. Because like yourself, you are living that. You're living in a space where you are not judging differences. You are in many ways leaning into it. You're being curious about it. And you're using that curiosity to extract the learning and using the learning to connect more. You know, you're learning to adapt without having to adopt someone else's ideas or beliefs. And that is a space that I, I want to create with the choice chat.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:18:25]:
They're short and chats for a reason. Right? We know that we don't have a lot of time for long winded podcast, but that's the premise behind those conversations.

Nia Thomas [00:18:36]:
You've talked about your coaching clients and and a little bit about your work. What are the kind of barriers that you're hearing leaders come back to you with when you're starting to talk about cultural intelligence?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:18:49]:
Voice, I would say, 100% of the time, it comes back to posture syndrome and confidence, a lack of confidence. Everyone's highly competent, but there is a misconception that this is a thing. This is another thing to add in their toolbox that takes work similar to a training an HR mandated training that has to be done at work, or a course that they have to take. And so working with multicultural leaders helps me navigate that in very simple but actionable ways. But when they come, it's interesting. The number one reason why people will want to work with me is executive presence. That is the number one driver. And time and time again, we uncover that executive presence in and of itself is a very broad concern.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:19:54]:
Two multicultural leaders face different challenges when they are when they're developing their perceived executive presence, which is fueled by process and a lack of confidence, you know, learning a new language or navigating corporate in a new country or navigating, you know, corporate politics when there are aspects of your identity that have to remain hidden for your perceived safety. There is a lack of confidence because there are not very many opportunities for those who don't fit a certain mold. So how do you establish perceived executive presence? And I call it perceived because it is very subjective. It is, you know, subject to the to the person who is judging your executive presence or your stakeholders. So how do you navigate those nuances while still preserving your your identity, all aspects of your identity?

Nia Thomas [00:21:06]:
So if you can make recommendations to teams and or leaders, what are their big key go tos to talk to others about cultural recognition and cultural support and cultural awareness? Where do people start in having that conversation if they are being challenged in the workplace and they're trying to maintain that momentum?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:21:30]:
I would say if you're facing resistance in the very beginning, begin embodying it. Don't talk about it as much as embodying it. What does that mean? If you are in a meeting and you have diverse viewpoints, invite them all in and turn it into a brainstorm. If there is if there is a difference in in how people want to approach work, lean into that and ask more questions than than you are giving answers. Right? So that's how you embody this. Tell me more about that. Is that how you prefer to, to navigate this project? Where is the navigation coming from? Is this something that you have found to be more effective for you? Is this something that you learned from somewhere? Where is that coming from? You're extracting more of the person into the task at hand, as opposed to imposing the task into the person. So the more you do this, the more you are practicing culturally intelligent leadership and people will become curious about that pivot, that shift.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:22:46]:
You know, you're asking questions about the knowledge, you're asking questions so that you can plan more effectively with teams or with an individual. We know that conflict is probably the number one issue in the workplace. And it almost always comes from a lack of understanding. So when you are embodying cultural intelligence, you're looking to understand before getting to an answer. And so the way you flex this muscle is you ask time and time again, tell me more about that. What leads you to this conclusion? That's curious. That's not how I thought of it. Walk me through the differences here.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:23:31]:
You see, so you're leaning into curiosity with humility, but you're also creating a space for bidirectional feedback. You're creating dialogue and that's the essence of cultural intelligence so that you're using this knowledge to motivate yourself, but motivate others to ask questions. And it just becomes this, this flywheel of all these different connecting points that help you develop cultural intelligence in in others without having to actually say the words cultural intelligence. Yeah. We know that people wanna run away the minute you mentioned framework or, you know, toolkit. Anytime you bring in all those different terms, it's a turn off for people because they're already drowning in toolkits and checklists and all these, tools that they have at their disposal.

Nia Thomas [00:24:31]:
I'm really thinking about the the different terms that you've used. You've talked about humility, and you've talked about confidence and curiosity. It feels like there is a lot that we need to do to break down the ego because we have this sense of, well, I must be right. But, actually, if you take that stance and you take that very fixed mindset position, you miss that opportunity to be curious and to learn more. How do you support leaders and maybe the people that you coach to get over that sense that they have this innate, ability to be right about things, and that maybe we're not, and that actually curiosity is a better position than taking that stance of, like, course, I must be right.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:25:22]:
Yes. It always comes down to digging deeper. When I see such a push to to be right and and really insert your opinion in certain things, I always come back to walk me through that moment that you need to know, and you need to have the other person know that your point is better. Walk me through what led you there. Walk me through where this practice began. How did it get to be this point? I've seen many times where leaders have a misconception that once they get the title, they need to do more of that. And that's always, almost always, I'm trying to think of a time when it wasn't, but none come to mind because that's the moment where they they shift in the opposite direction. Instead of growing closer with their team, they're actually building a bigger divide by by inserting themselves in all decisions, not realizing the impact that led them to that point in the first place.

Nia Thomas [00:26:29]:
Oh my goodness. And it brings us right back to self awareness, doesn't it?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:26:32]:
Yes. It does. Because it peels back to what got them there in the first place. That's their superpower. But they they relinquish that power when they let the title lead as opposed to a superpower.

Nia Thomas [00:26:46]:
Yeah. I love that. Yes. Because we I think we are still in this fallacy of the leader has the final decision. The leader is always right. And I think we are shifting to being more humble, more curious, but it's not an easy shift, is it? And and I'm not seeing it everywhere.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:27:07]:
No. And I'll tell you. I tell everyone this story because they they don't believe me. They think that, you know, you have all these accolades and you have these wonderful titles, and so you are a certain way and you do have all the answers. I promise you it is not true. And I there are two unprecedented events that have happened throughout the course of my leadership that shaped my leadership for better or for worse. The first was 09:11. And I remember we were directly, I wanna say, quarter of a mile from where it happened so we could see everything that was happening.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:27:47]:
And I was, the HR director at the time. And I remember thinking, okay. I need to suppress need to suppress all emotions, everything, and just go to task. Go to battle. This is we need to do a. We need to do b. We need to do and I ensure that everyone's else's needs were taken care of before my own, that all employees were safe, that they had the the mental health support, that they had Their compensation was uninterrupted. Their benefits were uninterrupted.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:28:21]:
You name it. Fast forward to COVID, post cultural intelligence. When we are we had a presence in about 30 states plus several different countries in Latin America when COVID, exploded, really. And we were, you know, in The United States, the benefit of the countries outside of The United States of that is one country with one policy that applies to all. In The United States, you have states that have differing and sometimes conflicting policies that you're having to navigate. And I remember my team and I were brainstorming on how to best accommodate because it was growing increasingly difficult. And I remember saying to the team, you know what? I don't have any answers here. I know that we are all doing the best that we can, and I am sure we're gonna figure it out even if it's not right now.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:29:19]:
Yeah. What's that one thing that we can do today that will get us to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing? They they were much more empowered by it because they came back to me and said, you know, I appreciate you showing up in this way. I appreciate that you feel just as lost as we do, but I appreciate even more that you were being transparent about it. So two very catastrophic events with two completely different approaches. One was transformational. The other one was destructive.

Loren [00:29:53]:
Fascinating how that sense of openness with team does does give you that sense of colleagueness, that collaboration with your team. And it's not the same as saying, I'm sorry. We haven't got a clue. It's saying, we don't know yet, but we will support each other. And through my leadership or our leadership, we will move through, and we accept that we have to make decisions on a daily basis. And I and I think it's interesting when you're talking about how how we started to change the way that we make decisions. Because I think pre COVID, we were very much we have a five year plan, and we will we will stick to the project plan. But we are moving into a far more accepted, agile way of we have to respond to what we now know today, and we'll respond to tomorrow when we know what's happening to tomorrow.

Nia Thomas [00:30:49]:
And I think corporate intelligence is very much rooted in we have to take all of the ideas, the learning from the people that are around us to be able to work out tomorrow and the day after and the day after.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:31:03]:
Exactly. And and it also created the space for me to meet everyone in the team in and outside of The United States in a place that was culturally appropriate to them. Because after this moment, I knew that some some people preferred a more directive approach, directive leadership approach from me. So I would use the one on ones to check-in on that. You know, I know that this is what we discussed in the team meeting. Does that meet your needs? Is there any lingering question that you have? What is it that you need from me to help you move forward? And most often, you know, in particular cultures, they would say to me, well, I don't know where to get started. Okay. Let's let's work on that together.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:31:54]:
You know? They would need more, they would need me to be more of a directive leader in that moment as opposed to others who preferred the hands off the coach and were okay with it. Yeah. But it was a way for me to gauge who needed what way.

Nia Thomas [00:32:11]:
My colleague refers to that as situational leadership. And I think that the understanding of of being responsive as a leader in a different situation and knowing people well enough to understand your impact on others to be able to respond is something that you have to work on every day. You might be good at it today. You might not be good at it tomorrow because if you're under stress and there's lots of busyness, then you're not as good at it.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:32:38]:
Absolutely. And you mentioned stress. Right? We cannot be that leader if we don't lead ourselves first. It's impossible. And self awareness starts with looking in the mirror for that reason. Right? We are all under a severe amount of stress. There's good stress, but there's unnecessary stress because of the uncertainty. So the more we show up for ourselves, even if it's not one minute, just one minute, the more we can do that in any given situation.

Nia Thomas [00:33:12]:
Lauren, before you go, tell us a little bit more about your book and where can people find it.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:33:18]:
Yes. My book, Becoming the Change, is available on Amazon, and, you can, you know, find it there. It's been there and will not go away. Kobo also, sells it, but Amazon is the most popular space for it.

Nia Thomas [00:33:35]:
We will make sure that there is a link in the show notes. So if people pick up your book, what will they find inside?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:33:42]:
They will find stories of people who have applied cultural intelligence in very nuanced ways, both at home and at work, but it helps you learn to develop your own cultural intelligence and really help you navigate the questions that come to mind as you're developing cultural intelligence and also resources where you can learn more about cultural intelligence and and, the cultural intelligence center as well.

Nia Thomas [00:34:10]:
Amazing. Well, we will make sure that that our listeners and our watchers can access your book. And where will they find the Choice Chats podcast?

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:34:19]:
You can find it on YouTube. You can find it in Spotify and Apple Podcasts as well.

Nia Thomas [00:34:25]:
Amazing. We will make sure that that is also in the show notes. Lauren, it's been really interesting having a conversation with you. I'm so glad you're able to join me. And for people who are watching this on YouTube, you really need to check out Lauren's background because it is beautiful. So if you are listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, then you may wanna hop over to YouTube. But for now, Lauren, it's been brilliant. Thank you for joining me.

Lauren Rosario Maldonado [00:34:50]:
Thank you so much, Nia. It's been a pleasure.

Nia Thomas [00:34:52]:
Thank you for joining me on today's episode where we aim to develop self aware leaders around the globe to generate kinder, more respectful and creative working relationships through reflection, recognition and regulation. Head over to my website at knowingselfknowingothers.co.uk to sign up to my newsletter to keep up to date with my blog, podcast and book. Looking forward to having you on my learning journey.