Nia Thomas [00:00:03]:

Hello, and welcome to the Knowing Self, Knowing Others podcast. I'm your host, Nia Thomas. Join me as we talk to today's guest. Today, I'm joined by Lalitaa Suglani, who is an award winning psychologist, leadership empowerment expert, international speaker and author of the book High Functioning Anxiety and we'll ask her more about that shortly. She's often featured in the New York Post, Harper's Bazaar, the Daily Mail, and international publications. Lalitaa believes that the key to achieving true and lasting success and happiness in all aspects of life lies within our own minds. She's witnessed how personal growth and self awareness can enable us to control our thought patterns, manage our internal voice, develop a positive mindset, and build the life and career we desire. Lalitaa's mission is to facilitate transformation in people's lives by promoting understanding and acceptance of emotions, attachments, and relationships.

Nia Thomas [00:01:02]:

And her aim is to awaken individuals to their inner strengths, empower them to thrive and prosper in life. Lalitaa, it's wonderful to have you here. Thank you for joining me.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:01:11]:

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Nia Thomas [00:01:14]:

So tell us, your book is called high functioning anxiety. What is high functioning anxiety?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:01:20]:

You know, it's a really good question. And we went round and round trying to think of a name for the book, and it just kept coming back to high functioning anxiety. So when we think the easiest way to describe high functioning anxiety is thinking a bit of how we visualize a swan. So we see a swan and above the water, it's gliding. It looks like it's, like, really graceful. It looks like it's got it all together. But underneath, it's sort of paddling. And sometimes that's how we are in life is underneath, we're overthinking, we're catastrophizing, we're overworked, we're burnt out, we're lonely, we're tired.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:01:49]:

But on the surface, everyone thinks we're fine. Everyone thinks that you've got it together. You're someone who, doesn't miss a deadline. You're someone who's at all the events, you're always happy. You're always social. You're always energized, but that's not what's going on underneath. So for me, high functioning anxiety is you're presenting in one way, but underneath there's so much happening that people don't often see because we're masking it. We've learned to mask it.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:02:12]:

We have learned to almost, like, put the suppressed outside, but it's still going on, but we just don't show it to the world around us.

Nia Thomas [00:02:19]:

So if we think about leaders particularly and maybe leaders of big organizations, are there some telltale signs that we can watch out for? Because if we're a caring organization and maybe we work alongside them in the c suite and, you know, we wanna make sure that we've got their backs. What are the kind of things that we need to look out for?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:02:37]:

I think as leaders, it's really easy to fall into this high functioning anxiety because you wanna make sure that you're looking after everyone else. But the question is, are you looking after yourself? Are you in the background? B, are you burnt out? Are you lonely? Do you feel disconnected? Where are your boundaries with, like, self care? What are you doing for yourself? So if you're someone who's always feeling tired, always feeling exhausted, it's like, hang on. What's this about? Why am I giving so much to others? But when it comes to me, why is it that I'm not able to give to me? Because I'm so busy, busy, busy. And that's the thing with high functioning anxiety is you can be high functioning, but it it's fueled from this place of fear and for, stems from, like, this anxiety. You're constantly go, go, go, you don't have the space for yourself. You're too busy. Just focus on everything else. But often that's an avoidance because you don't want to look at yourself and you don't even realize you're doing this because this has become a pattern in your life.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:03:28]:

So the signs would be looking out for how exhausted do you feel, but also what do you do for yourself? What are some of the things that you are doing to self care where it's not including looking after everyone else and making sure you're there for everyone else? Because what about you in there?

Nia Thomas [00:03:44]:

It sounds like then it's quite difficult for other people to spot this. So if we're thinking about ourselves, where does self awareness fit into that? How do I how do I tap into self awareness to help me understand myself and whether I am high functioning anxiety?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:04:03]:

That's a really powerful question because often people that have high functioning anxiety, they they aren't self aware of their patterns. They're stuck in this space of go, go, go, where they're so busy for everyone else, doing things for everyone else because that's what they've learned to do. This is where even in the book, I go back into the inner child, go back into our core beliefs. So where is it that I learn this belief of I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy enough, I'm not deserving? And where is it that I learned that I need to make sure that other people get more from me than I can give to myself? So you learn that your needs don't matter and you learn to give to everyone else. That would have become now a pattern that you continue with, but you're not conscious of that. And when we think of consciousness and we think of self awareness is you may not have given yourself the space and the time to really become aware of these thoughts that you're having, your behaviors, your feelings that you're having because you've disconnected from all of this because it's always been about everyone else. So you're living outside in rather than inside out. And when you start developing that self awareness of hang on, what about me? I'm feeling exhausted.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:05:09]:

I'm feet so these are the things that you start to notice is I'm noticing these things about me. I'm seeing these things about me. But when you then start to give yourself space to start to explore this, that's where you can go, like, dive deeper into, hang on, what's really going on here? And you start to develop that self awareness in understanding what are the some of the thoughts that you're having, what are some of the, behaviors that you're presenting with, but also what are the feelings that are coming up? Because often we're disconnected from it. We're not allowing ourselves to really delve deep into that. We're not giving ourselves a space or the moments of pause to really reflect within. And that's where when you start down this sort of, like, journey of self discovery and self inquiry, you start developing more of this awareness?

Nia Thomas [00:05:54]:

So there feels like there's, an element of missing out on self care there. I really like the way you described your living outside in. And I've heard people talk about when that when they talk about self care.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:06:08]:

Yeah. Yeah. So what you're doing is you have learned to attune to people around you and their emotions and their reactions, And you need to make sense. So your nervous system is connected to that. So if someone around you is not okay or is feeling sad or is feeling upset, you quickly need to to regulate your own emotions. You need to fix that for them. That's what you've learned to do. But that goes back into your attachments, goes back into you making sense of maybe mom was inconsistent, dad was inconsistent.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:06:36]:

And it's not about blaming your parents, but it's about understanding where did you learn to regulate your emotions in the way that you did. So maybe something along the way as being like, actually, mom and dad weren't able to hold your emotions, but you learned to regulate your emotions through where they're at. But that pattern then continues. But even in leadership, I see it happen with so many different high achieving leaders who are leading such a an amazing company, but where is their self care? They've learned to keep giving and giving and giving and giving, but they don't know how to give to themselves. And that's the really sad thing is they've never learned that they are enough. They're deserving. They are, entitled to be able to look after themselves. They're just so busy giving and making sure that everyone else around them is okay, but they don't know how to pause and just be with themselves without or if someone else is upset, it's like, how do I just sit with that rather than I need to fix it? Because that's more about you than it is about the other person.

Nia Thomas [00:07:37]:

2 things you said there that I really would like to explore. The first is how do you define self awareness, and then the other part is the part that childhood plays in our adulthood. And I ask that on the basis that for the last 18, 20 years, I've been working in the yearly years space. So I'm I'm a director of a children's charity and our area of interest is preschool children. And in those 18 years, I've learned a lot about brain development and how parents have an impact on that brain development. So let me go back firstly to that first question of how do you define self awareness.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:08:13]:

Self awareness is like the foundation. So self awareness is a foundation of everything that's going on for you, and it's about understanding what are your thoughts, what are your, feelings, and what are your behaviors. So if you start to become attuned so say, for example, I am speaking to one of my colleagues. And when they're talking to me, they might be dismissive or they might just be on their laptop and I'm trying to have a conversation. So now my feeling might be I might be feeling a little bit rejected. I might be feeling a little bit like, oh, have I done something wrong with and these are the thoughts then that start to come in. Have I done something wrong? Did I upset them? So now I'm starting to think, catastrophize. So I'm becoming self aware is you becoming aware of what am I feeling when this person isn't looking at me or they're they're busy typing and I'm trying to talk to them? What am I thinking and what's the narrative that I have? Why is my narrative gone to this? Because that comes from a belief system as well.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:09:03]:

So if you've got a belief system where once upon a time, this goes feeds into your question you asked about earlier is if you felt abandoned as a child, if you felt rejected as a child, this will be playing out in the narrative. And the belief that you have is I'm not good enough. If you don't feel good enough and someone's busy typing away and they're not looking at you, that's going to fuel that same belief system. So what are you gonna then do as a behavior? Are you then going to overcompensate? Are you then going to be like, oh, let me just not give this person any more work because they they they clearly are very busy. So we then create that narrative and we make a choice in that space because of what might be going on. Developing self awareness is understanding, hang on. This person isn't it feels like they're being dismissive. But that's my view of them, where they're at right now.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:09:52]:

They might have a million and one of the things going on, but my narrative is taking me into this space. So that's what self awareness is about, is becoming aware and attuned to what's happening within your mind, body energy when you're around certain people. And there might be certain triggers that might be coming up or certain emotions that might be coming up from emotional reactions rather that might be coming up when you're around certain people. And when you become aware of this rather than being reactional, it's be it's learning to be responsive. That's what I feel self awareness is is you becoming more aware of your surroundings and the world around you whilst you're navigating and experiencing the world around you.

Nia Thomas [00:10:32]:

And that's a constant journey, isn't it? Because that changes all of the time. Whether we're talking about the people or the environment, we're constantly in and out of those different spaces and places.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:10:42]:

Definitely. Definitely. Like, we're always learning. There's so many different things that we're learning in everyday life, and everyday experiences just keeps teaching us more and more about, things that are going on within us. So you might be speaking to a friend that you haven't seen. You could be getting a coffee shop and speaking to a complete stranger and learn something about yourself in that space. We have so many shadow parts of us, which I talk about a lot in the book is how do we keep integrating these shadow parts, into our consciousness? So we're like, oh, actually, this is what's coming up for me in this. This is what's happening for me here.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:11:14]:

And that becomes more and more part of your self awareness and then how you continue to navigate life day to day.

Nia Thomas [00:11:20]:

I really like that. We we often talk about blind spots, but shadow parts, they it feels more expansive than actually a blind spot because we have these shadow parts as you say. And and as you move in different directions, the shadows change shape as well. So I'm looking at

Lalitaa Suglani [00:11:36]:

creative, like, way of thinking about it because it's true, isn't it? Like, light hits us in different ways, and then we have different shadows that keep popping up. And it's like, oh, what is this? Rather than running away from it or ignoring it. It's like, no. The shadow is gonna keep coming up unless I do something with this or try and make sense of it. Otherwise, it's just gonna keep coming up, coming up, coming up. So, yeah, that's a beautiful way of being creative with it.

Nia Thomas [00:11:58]:

Yeah. Definitely. So tell us about your thoughts of our childhood and how our development and our brain development and our parenting and our environment, how how all of that impacts particularly around anxiety?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:12:11]:

I think it's really interesting. And I use the word interesting because people that tend to be high functioning and, and come from a place of anxiety, they're like, yeah, but I had a really good childhood. Everything was fine. And it's almost like there's this, there's so many protective layers in people not wanting to blame. And I always say to people, we're not here to blame. We're not here to blame your parents. We're not here to say that because of your parents in the way that they've treated you. Because every parent is going through their journey.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:12:36]:

They're doing the best that they can in the time that they have and the self awareness that they have. But it's also understanding that when you start to become more aware of like your childhood and understanding the patterns, understanding your attachments, your early attachments, it's crucial in helping you to understand your adult connections and your adult attachments. So say, for example, and I see this a lot, is if children grow up in an environment where parents might be inconsistent or parents might not be, sharing certain things with, with children and children know that things are going on, children then can develop this anxiety and what they learn to do is people please or they might learn to be a perfectionist. And it's something I've experienced. I know that growing up for me, I was a people pleaser. I was a perfectionist. So even in my own experience, I know that there was a part of me that was like, I don't want to upset anyone. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:13:27]:

And I was hyper vigilant to people around me to try and understand that I don't ever wanna upset anyone or disappoint anyone because I didn't know how to regulate the disappointment. I didn't know how to regulate the guilt, the shame because these were big emotions that being 2nd generation and individual where my parents were 1st generation, survival mode was all about, right, how do we make a better life here? But they weren't about emotional connection. They weren't about let's regulate emotions. Whereas 2nd generation here, we weren't then taught to regulate these big emotions. So often you find in 2nd generation individuals, there's people pleasing, there's perfectionist traits because you're trying to make sense of things that there's no nurturing, there's no connection. So you may be nurtured in other ways, but there's certain, when it comes to emotions, you're not regulating these emotions. So you then end up in coping behaviors that don't often serve you. It's, again, living outside in, focused on everyone else.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:14:22]:

And it's something I share in in my book about how we're so focused on everyone else around us. We become hyper vigilant. We notice like the smallest changes in people and that can come from growing up in an environment where you don't want to upset people, you don't want to disappoint people, and then you don't want to feel this rejection, this abandonment. So you'll do anything in order to feel safe, to make sure that you're, you're doing all the good things that you should be doing because you're a good child. So it's a tick box exercises that are going on in your mind. You don't even realize you're doing it because you're you're not aware. You don't have the the tools to be able to make sense of what's going on for you, what you're feeling, what you're thinking, why you're behaving in the way that you are.

Nia Thomas [00:15:02]:

I'm interested that you're talking a lot about fitting in. And as much about fitting in into societies, into families, when we step into an organization, we are often trying to fit in there as well. If we are different in any way, if we are neurodiverse, How do we tap into our self awareness to both understand and to manage that kind of anxiety that comes with that?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:15:31]:

Yeah. I think there's a there's a massive fear of of judgment because being neurodiverse myself, I know I was I I was diagnosed with ADHD in my twenties. And when I did, I was like, do I tell the workplace? Do I not? Like, and and there is a massive anxiety because you feel people are going to judge you. But that also comes from shame. Shame of you feeling like I'm not going to have this sense of belonging. People aren't going to accept me in this space or people are going to think I'm difficult. People are going to think that I'm a burden. So you have these deeper beliefs that are going on.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:16:00]:

And even now when I work with people who are neurodiverse, similar things. It's like, I don't want to tell the workplace because there's a promotion coming up. I might not get this promotion. So we have these inner beliefs of and and they're like it's almost like it's prejudgments of, you not getting to a space that you want to get to. So if you're thinking about getting to this promotion, you're already preconceiving that this is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna be rejected. I'm gonna be abandoned. But that comes from your previous experiences as well.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:16:28]:

And it's how do you really trust yourself? And that's, again, something I talk about in the book is how do you trust yourself? How do you trust your intuition? How do you really tune into, hang on, I could hold space for me here. So if I'm noticing that there's someone here that might be judging me or someone's bringing things up, how in a workplace can I bring that up to someone's attention and just say, hey, look, I know I've got these things that are going on? No one's perfect. But how is it that I'm trying to better myself in the workplace to be the best leader that I can be? What tools may I need? What support may I need as well? Because people shy away from getting the right support because they're afraid of people seeing them as not being capable, not being a good leader because they need support. But don't we all need support? Don't we all need to better ourselves in some shape or form? And don't we wanna put up our hands and say, actually, this is what I'm looking for. This is the support I might be needing.

Nia Thomas [00:17:20]:

So when you're supporting people, working with people, what kind of things are you talking about or exercises that you're doing maybe to help people develop their their self awareness for themselves to start with? I'm also interested about how do you do that for other people.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:17:38]:

I think that's something as a leader is being authentic. And being authentic doesn't mean that you go out and you share everything that's going on for you. Because as a leader as well, you wanna make sure, yes, you're being authentic. But there's the the image that comes to mind is when you're in your warrior position in yoga. And when you're in your warrior position, you have your arm out. You're you've got your focus, but you've also got this barrier, this boundary that's there, but your heart space is open. So although your heart space is open, you've still got that boundary in place. You're still making sense of, I'm not going to wear my heart on my sleeve.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:18:10]:

I'm not going to wear my heart here. I'm going to protect myself. I'm going to learn to put in these boundaries. So when as a leader, you don't want to be sharing everything in it with with everyone around you and your employees as well as other people in in leadership, because you don't know how other people are gonna react, but you wanna become more in tune with, hang on, what's going on for me? What what's important for me to share in the workplace? What do I feel like I don't need to be sharing? Because what we don't wanna do is just start sharing everything. But there's also other people that may not have self awareness, that may not emotionally regulate in a certain way that is gonna be helpful for us. So we also need to learn the boundary and make sense of what's going on for me. But really tuning in and trusting with how then can I communicate with others based on the needs that I need? So for me, it starts from within. You looking at what are your needs, what are some of the things that you might be needing, but also not getting caught up with these are the people that are gonna give me everything to give me or to to provide me with what I need.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:19:05]:

It's like, no. We can also give ourselves that by understanding what are these needs? What's the intention of me wanting people to know certain things about me? Because you wanna protect yourself as well within the workplace.

Nia Thomas [00:19:16]:

It feels like both as individuals, we have to step up to the mark, but actually the organisations have to meet us at that point as well, so it's a two way street. Yeah. So if you're talking about or talking with leaders who have people within their organizations that they may may be people with high functioning anxiety, how do you raise that leader's awareness, and what do they do to support those individuals?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:19:43]:

So often leaders will say, I don't wanna get rid of it. I don't wanna get rid of my high functioning anxiety because how else am I gonna function? And I think this is where we wanna raise awareness in that, actually, no, there's burnout. There's real physical impact of this. And often people will start going or looking within once they hit that burnout. So because their coping strategies of go, go, go, go, they hit that point, they hit that brick wall, and then are able to get back up and use some strategies in the same way. And that's when they're willing to want to look within. But we want to try and get people to be preventative with this and start to become more aware. And that's one of my missions is becoming more aware of this high functioning.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:20:20]:

Like, you're not going to get rid of your high functioning side if you get rid of or learn to manage the anxiety. And there's a really beautiful film that's recent, a cartoon that's recently come out inside out, too. And it shows anxiety. I don't know if you've watched it.

Nia Thomas [00:20:34]:

Not yet. No, it's

Lalitaa Suglani [00:20:37]:

such a beautiful cartoon. Like, it just shows you how anxiety can show up, but it also shows you how when you're connected with all your other parts of you, how working together and how really supporting yourself, it manages your anxiety rather than your anxiety just blocking out everything. You're being very reactive because you're catastrophizing about something that may not have happened because you're trying to keep yourself safe. It's like, no, actually I don't need to do that. What I need to do is learn to understand what is, what is this thing? And this is where self awareness is important. What's creating the anxiety within me? Why do I feel certain things when I'm anxious? And what's going on? So that again is part of your shadow self that we wanna learn to integrate into yourself. So when we work with leaders, often leaders don't even know about high functioning anxiety. The amount of talks I've done in different corporates, and they're like, this exists? This is something that I didn't even realize existed, or I just thought it was something that I go through.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:21:30]:

I didn't realize other people go through this. Because it's it's that imposter within you is you presenting as, yeah. Yeah. I'm fine. But actually, underneath, there's this other part of you and you ignore it, but you think that you're the only one that's going through this, but you're not. Like, I think there were stats that were done that how many people struggle with imposter syndrome. It's over 85% of people. Don't quote me on that.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:21:52]:

But I remember reading something about 85% of people, the struggle with imposter syndrome, but no one will ever share that this is what's going on for them because we need to keep up this appearance. We need to keep showing that I'm okay. I've got it together. Look. I need I've got I'm I'm here. I'm here. But as a leader, actually, no. We wanna be relatable.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:22:08]:

We want to be real. We want to be authentic with what's going on for us. And if we're struggling and if we're seeing our staff struggling, how do we then look after them? How do we then teach them to look after themselves? But also, yeah, step in and be as functioning as you can in the workplace. But even, like, little moments of self care can go a long way in just keeping your mental health and keeping you grounded every day.

Nia Thomas [00:22:34]:

It's interesting as you talk that the number of conversations that I have with different podcast guests, and there are so many connections between what we talk about. So high functioning anxiety, overwhelm, imposter syndrome. I actually had I've I've spoken to podcast guests. So Adrian Ashton and Aoife O'Brien who are both talking about imposter syndrome as well as Melanie Wilkie. So 3 guests already talking about that, and they are all connected to self awareness, connected to high functioning anxiety. And it feels like there might be a continuum there of, you know, you moved from imposter syndrome and then you become more anxious, but then you may be less anxious in a particular day. So how do we manage this? How do we move so that we feel less anxious in a particular situation? How do we manage that on a on a day to day, on an hour by hour maybe?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:23:23]:

So in in my book, it's a 5 step guide. And in the 5th chapter, what I've done is wrote down 12 powers. And the powers are about how do we really empower ourselves? How do we really show up? So things like really setting boundaries with ourselves. But to do that, we need to learn more about ourselves. We need to become more aware. We need to understand what our needs are. And if we've never done that, it's like speaking a very different language and it can feel very intense initially. But the more you do it, the easier it becomes for you.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:23:52]:

So when you're or when we're talking about how do we show up, we need to learn what do we give ourselves. So if you're, for example, just eating for the sake of eating, we need to learn, hang on. When do I feel hungry? When do I feel thirsty? And when I do, what am I giving myself? Am I just filling myself with anything or am I being really consciously aware of and intentional with what I'm doing for myself? Because if we're just like, okay. I'm noticing I'm hungry. Just go, but we're very unconscious about it. That's not helping you. So how do you really help yourself? How do you really start to show up for yourself and become more aware of thoughts, feelings, behaviors, your belief systems of how you see yourself, how you see others, how you see the world? Where do you feel like you are in that? It takes it it's everyday everyday life where we're taught. We're given opportunities to go deep within to start understanding more and more and more about ourselves, but we also need to invest that time.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:24:45]:

And when we are high functioning anxiety, we don't know how to because we're so busy with go, go, go. We don't know how to just stop and pause, but that pause could just be you having a cup of tea without a phone, without emails, without you doing a 1,000,001 other things at the same time. It's just being present with how am I feeling from within and just starting that, like, routine or ritual where you're stopping during the day, giving yourself pause moments and really tuning, like, what am I feeling here? Or if you're around certain people in the workplace and you're like, okay, that person, what's going on for me when when they've just done that? Or what's happening here? Or what am I noticing here? So you're learning to become more grounded in the space around you, more intentional with hang on, what's actually happening here? Instead of like, okay. I need to go to the next thing, next thing. Because that's an avoidance of what's really going on underneath. You're you're really deep learning to deep dive and go deeper within yourself.

Nia Thomas [00:25:42]:

So tell us a bit more about your book. What what else might readers find in your book?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:25:47]:

I've intentionally split the book into 2 sections. So the first section is all about unlearning. We go through unlearning first because we have to go back to the beginning, understand where has it all come from? Why is it that I think in this way? So I go into the inner child. I talk about the beliefs that we have developed over time, and then we move more into the learning space. And the learning space is how now do I move forward with a new language that I'm trying to learn, a new language that I'm like, okay. How do I deal with this? It's like, no. There is a way, and there is another way. A way that you just learn to develop this inner peace.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:26:23]:

You develop this space where you can just be without the do, do, do. It's like, no. I can just be, and I'm okay with this because you've learned to regulate your emotions. So you're not just sitting with guilt and shame and thinking, how do I get rid of this? It's like, no. I can sit with this. I'm learning to understand it, and I can then integrate that back into my life to make sense of what's going on to help me keep growing and to develop personally and professionally.

Nia Thomas [00:26:49]:

Where is the best place for people to get hold of your book?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:26:53]:

If you Google high functioning anxiety book, it'll come up with Amazon, Waterstones. It it's available in, majority of the bookstores out there. So just type in high functioning anxiety book, and, it'll come up with the unique

Nia Thomas [00:27:05]:

And we'll make sure that there is a link in the show notes too so that, our watchers and our listeners can get a copy. So what are your thoughts on the future? Because I'm I'm quite interested in as we as we move towards ultra digitalism that we're gonna have this need for hyperhumanism, and and I've got this this hunch that we're gonna need to balance things out. And we can't become so ultra digital that actually we can't balance hyperhumanism. What do all of those things mean for people who have high functioning anxiety? How do they shift into this very digital focused world, and how do they manage working from home, hybrid working, virtual communication? How does all of that fit?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:27:52]:

With high functioning anxiety, the one thing that I put into the book is about sensitivity and about how as we are high functioning, we we are very sensitive. We pick up on things. We notice things in people. We can read, like, different things that are going on. And often, we then personalize it. And when we're sitting at home and we're hybrid working, we need to be very mindful of that. Because if we get an email, if we are communicating through text, if we are communicating via Slack, we need to be mindful of, hang on. When I'm reading something, what's going on for me? What am I noticing? What's coming up for me? So, again, giving yourself that space rather than thinking, oh, god.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:28:29]:

I've upset this person. So just being more conscious of the narrative. But I think it's also about having boundaries because, yes, you wanna be around people. So when you are going into the office, you're connecting with people. You're getting an idea of how people how people are. So when you are messaging online, you're connecting. It's a very different space. But I think also anxiety is going to evolve as well in how we're connected with different people.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:28:52]:

So when you are working from home and then you're going into the office, you will naturally start to feel a little bit more anxious because you're like, oh, God, I need to be around people. And, what what what are they gonna be thinking about me? So we're gonna have a different type of anxiety that's going to evolve. And I think it's about becoming more aware of just, again, your anxieties, your triggers, your feelings. And if you develop this self awareness, you can then manage the anxiety. It's not saying that you can't manage it. It's about how do you then manage this change in anxiety that's presenting because the world is changing around us and we are more online than we've ever been before. How do you then manage that? And also having boundaries. Boundaries are really important.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:29:33]:

Not always feeling that you need to be on social media or that you're connecting with colleagues constantly through email. Like, can we not book in a video call? Can we not book in a call where we can talk to one another on the phone rather than it just being through certain mediums? But I think, again, different generations are going to some generations are gonna be like, no. No. No. No. No. I prefer this and and I don't wanna talk to anyone. And that can create an anxiety.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:29:55]:

But again, we wanna understand the different levels of communication and how that's changing over time and making sense of, okay, if someone is in a generation where they like to talk to people and then we've got someone in generation where they don't wanna talk to someone and they just wanna text, how are we then, as an organization, teaching people how we wanna communicate and how do we support both individuals? Because from both ends is going to be deeper feelings of loneliness, disconnection, burnout in their own right. So it's about how do we manage that? How do we look after that? And it comes back down to the individual. How do we as an individual notice what's going on for us but also communicate that to the organization to let them know so our needs are met?

Nia Thomas [00:30:39]:

It does definitely feel like the conversation of the future working world is very much centered around individualization because I think we we've tried to to manage teams and homogeneous groups, but actually it's gonna be more about the individual. So if I am a leader and I'm concerned about a very, effective member of staff, but I'm worried about what they're worrying about, what kind of conversations should I be having with them?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:31:08]:

I think just starting starting a conversation. Hi. How are you? Rather than thinking because your narrative is running off somewhere. You might be noticing something in someone, but let's just be real about it and just say like, hey. Look. Start a conversation. Notice what's going on. And if you feel like they they're not really available, you can just ask that, look, is everything okay? I've noticed over the last few weeks that you you haven't been yourself.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:31:30]:

And I'm just wondering, is everything okay? So what you're doing is you're you're understanding, hang on, I'm feeling that this person in front of me isn't okay. But you're also being real about it. You're saying I've noticed this, but you're starting a conversation where it's not intrusive. Like, what's wrong with you? Tell me what's wrong with you. It's like, no. I'm I'm just being curious. Like, are you okay? And if they say yes, we also need to then be, like, be okay as a leader to be like, okay. I need to respect that.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:31:55]:

But you might also then come back and want to check-in, like, the next day or the the, give it a few days. And then just check-in again and say, hey. Look. I've noticed this. Is everything okay? And also, you can also share what you're noticing. So are you noticing they're a little bit quieter? Are you noticing that their productivity at work is different? Are you noticing that they're not as focused as they usually are? Sharing that can really help the other person then to feel seen, to feel heard. And they may also be defensive. But then that as a leader is that you building that trust, you building that space of empathy.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:32:26]:

And that's why I say don't go in there and say, what's wrong with you? Because I've noticed it. It's like, no, let's just start a conversation, build that trust up, let the person know that, like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're interested in what's going on. And then you're sharing, hey. Is everything alright? And just starting a conversation there. And then being able to offer the the the individual some support of some kind if they do start sharing things for, like, what what might be going on for them.

Nia Thomas [00:32:48]:

I think that's really good advice because we're I think we're we're very good at saying how are you. And if somebody gives you an answer, whether it's I'm fine or I'm not fine, we don't know what to say next. Mhmm. But I think that idea of sharing, are you okay? I've noticed you've been quieter recently. It opens a door to a different kind of conversation that that if you're really not sure about that or maybe you're new to managing people or maybe new to this individual, then that's a really helpful way of saying this isn't just a a superficial question. This is a question that's that's been thought through and there's care behind this.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:33:27]:

Definitely. And I think also just being mindful of the people around you as well. Because if you're going in and you're in a shared office and you're asking a person, are you okay? I've noticed, like, who else is listening and how does that person then feel? So you might want to say, hey, look, should we go and grab a tea? I'm just gonna make a tea. Should we go and grab 1? Or, hey, I'm just gonna go for a walk. Do you wanna go for a quick walk? Or be great to have a check-in just to see how you're doing. Should we have a check-in? So, again, there's a space. There's a time rather than trying to, like, catch them out when they're they're they're sort of, like, least expecting it. So you might say, hey.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:33:56]:

You're alright. How are things? Oh, it'd be great to have a check-in. It's been a while. When are you next available? And then having that check-in, and then you've got that private space to really just deep dive rather than the other person just feeling like they're on show.

Nia Thomas [00:34:09]:

Yes. Environment as well as the as the words you use to ask those questions are particularly important. Are there any final thoughts that you'd like to share with leaders out there, people managers out there, or or maybe somebody who thinks that maybe some of the worries they have might be high functioning anxiety?

Lalitaa Suglani [00:34:29]:

I think it's really just tuning in, trusting yourself. And I use the word I think because I'm just like, okay. What is it that might be you're noticing as individuals? We're all individuals. We're all noticing and feeling different things. Really trust things that you're feeling, things that are coming up for you because we all notice different things. We are all here in our unique abilities. And if you're noticing something that's going on, don't just ignore it. Don't just push it to one side.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:34:53]:

Tune in with it. And it might not be that you're gonna be doing something with it, but you're just starting to listen in and tune in to hang on. What's going on here? You're connecting mind, body, energy together to try and make sense of, I'm noticing this. So give yourself moments of pause, but really start tuning in to, like, what's going on within you to make sense of it, giving yourself the space. And you might not be able to make sense of it, but that's part of your learning and part of your growth. So sit with it. It's a new language. Trust yourself.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:35:20]:

Be patient. That's what I would share with someone is start journaling. Start writing things down. Start talking to people that you feel like you can trust, doing some more research into it, entering a therapy space, and you're starting to develop more tools and and understanding of yourself.

Nia Thomas [00:35:36]:

Yes. Start simple, and that's the same for self awareness. I think in terms of our conversation for the purpose of raising awareness of awareness, I think it we've we've had a really good conversation, and I and I hope that it's really got some people out there thinking about themselves and how they can care for themselves better and maybe care for other people in their spaces better. So for today, doctor Lalitaa, thank you so much for joining me. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.

Lalitaa Suglani [00:36:03]:

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Nia Thomas [00:36:07]:

Thank you for joining me on today's show where we discuss self aware leadership with thinkers from around the globe. If you want to make sure that you keep in touch with what's going on in the world of self aware leadership, head over to my website and sign up to my newsletter. Looking forward to having you on my learning journey.